A New Dune: The App Aiming to Create more Income Stability for Artists - Interview with Dune Co-Founder Paul Knowles
Dune is a new app that is looking to offer a more predictable income stream for artists, to bridge the loss that was caused by DSPs, where money would normally be made by physical sales.
Dune allows fans to purchase and trade stakes in artists (the value being decided by streaming data from DSPs) - it also focuses on fan engagement, where fans who are stakeholders have access to special perks not available to the general public.
We sat down with Dune Co-Founder Paul Knowles for an in-depth interview on how Dune works, how it aims to benefit fans and artists, how the purchasing and trading stakes would work, how smaller artists could benefit, what fail-safes are in place and more.
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Eimear O Sullivan, Musicngear: Could you maybe tell us a little bit about your background, and how this led to you coming up with the idea for Dune?
I own and operate a small recording studio and having been a musician for many years, I have first-hand experience on how impossible it is to make a living in this industry. I witnessed the birth of file-sharing platforms and the effect this had on the value of music.
During the pandemic, I was forced to spend time thinking about how this problem could be solved while finding income from other sources. I’d traded stocks as a hobby and it occurred to me that if there were a mechanism by which I could buy shares in popular artists, this would certainly be something I’d invest in.
Musicngear: For artists and/or fans who are not familiar with Dune, could you explain in relatively simple terms what it is?
Dune is a marketplace for the buying/selling/trading of artist stakes. Stakes are a type of digital asset. Utility tokens that are dynamically priced using artist streaming data.
Musicngear: How would the 'purchasing and trading stakes in artists' side of things work?
Artists set the starting price of their own stakes. Once a sale is live, stake values are dynamic based on artist streaming. More streams tomorrow and the price increases and vice versa.
The dynamic pricing algorithm applies price changes daily. The algo is based on a 28-day average of total streams. A stakeholder is entitled to any exclusive content or fandom the artist is willing to offer. Users can choose to sell their stakes at any time.
Musicngear: Just out of interest, Dune relies on streaming data, and artists who are signed to major labels will have much larger streaming numbers due to major labels having direct relationships with DSPs (e.g., being guaranteed placements on large playlists like New Music Friday and so on). Smaller artists or independent artists in general wouldn't be able to compete in terms of streaming numbers here - how might Dune benefit these artists, or their fans?
The pricing algo applies changes daily and is based on a 28-day average of total streams. Percentage changes to streams are what affects price, so this is relative to each artist’s fanbase.
Artists with low listener numbers can increase their streams by 100% with relative ease. The 28-day average smooths out short-term spikes and limits to daily price movements level the playing field between small and large artists. This ensures opportunities for speculation across the board.
Musicngear: We've sadly seen investment-style platforms where things go wrong and users suddenly lose money. What safeguards or governance mechanisms does Dune have or plan to put in place to protect artists and users both from potential bad-actor users? ( e.g fraud, manipulation, or scenarios like rug-pulling)
We designed Dune with exactly this in mind. Dune is for fans, not Wall Street fat-cats. It’s important that it’s fair and fun. There’s a price floor of $5, which stake values cannot go below. The price algo and daily price movement limits keep values from crashing or “going to the moon” overnight like meme-stocks. Stake splits occur once prices reach a certain value (for example, once a price reaches, say $50 a stake splits into two stakes at $25 each). This keeps prices affordable and creates buying and selling opportunities. There are also limits to the number of stakes you can buy in a single transaction. Users can only benefit from the proper use of the platform. Rug-pulling is impossible, and manipulation is simply futile to attempt.
Musicngear: Patreon is a place where fans can support creators and/or artists they like directly and receive exclusive benefits; in this case, is the added bonus that fans can also benefit financially? (e.g from selling their stakes)
From the fan’s perspective, yes. Although that is quite profound, as it hasn’t really been possible before now. From the artist’s perspective, it’s a chance to replace a missing source of revenue, that of physical album sales. Something relatively small in value that most fans can buy. As well as new opportunities for fan interaction without the obligation that comes with Patreon-like models.
Musicngear: How would an artist and or fan go about joining?
Simply go to theduneapp.com and sign up for an artist account. Then find your profile and claim it. We go through a short verification process and once claimed, you can start a stake sale right away.
Musicngear: Last question, and thank you so much for your time. How do the fees work per transaction, and would this be the main way Dune would grow financially?
Typically, the artist takes over 70% of all revenue from stake sales. For each transaction, Dune charges a small fee to both parties, buyer and seller. We also plan to expand the platform so artists can offer much more to their fans.
There are also opportunities for the wider music industry to utilise our back-end management system and this will see Dune grow financially in many ways in the future.
About Eimear O Sullivan
Eimear Ann O Sullivan is a multi-genre music producer, audio engineer and vocalist. After receiving a Masters in Music Technology from the CIT Cork School of Music, she went on to operate as a producer under the name Blakkheart. Her releases have received critical acclaim from Ireland's biggest music publications, such as District Magazine and Nialler9, alongside receiving heavy commercial radio airplay. She currently works in Cork recording studio Flashpoint CC. Previous clients of hers include the likes of Comedy Central’s Dragony Aunt star Candy Warhol, rapper Darce and Outsider YP. (Photo credit @Fabian Boros)
Contact Eimear O Sullivan at eimear.o.sullivan@musicngear.com
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